a platform for employers and job seekers (in other words Indeed V 2.0)

[virginiaadorno]

I know, I know... "Fuck your indeed replica. We all hate indeed".

But please hear me out and if you are still not convinced by the end of this post, feel free to cuss me out (you're also welcome to leave any feedback or criticism - I will be more than happy to read and respond).

I recently put my 2 weeks notice at my job and started job hunting. I noticed many things in the ENTIRE hiring process and I was just surprised all this was going on in 2018. So I did a bit of looking around and found that there MAY be an opportunity here to create something. Here's what I found in some of my research;

1. 1 manager who was hiring for a position got my application, but never read through it... he actually didn't even know I existed until I reached out to him for a response. Turns out, they got near 180 applications for 2 open positions and the manager read the first 20 and invited people out. 160 some applicants weren't even acknowledged and their applications went straight from their computers to the company's recycle bin.
2. Brings me to my next point... 160 people were completely ghosted. We had taken our time tailoring our resumes and CVs down to the last word in order to qualify for the job... only to never hear a word from the employers again. Had I not reached out and asked "Hi guys, did you get my application" I may have never heard from them.
3. Another related point... What if one of those 160 people was a the best candidate in the entire pool? Not only did that guy get ignored and ghosted, but the company missed out on talent.
4. I listed my resume on indeed, monster and hired and turns out I am being contacted for roles which are either not related to my expertise AT ALL or are for a level lower than what I'm seeking. I'm seeking Senior Analyst positions and being offered Analyst... Goddamit, I already have that experience and I'm dammn good at what I do so stop wasting my time with these useless matches.
5. I am searching for jobs and somehow when I apply the terms "business analyst", the roles are all vaguely defined (probably because business analyst is a shitty role to be in lol). I mean why can't you just tell me exact skills that I will be using at the job, how good I need to be in them and call it a day.
6. Despite providing my resume and CV, stupid hired.com is asking me to refill the same goddamn info in my profile. I don't get it, WHY!?

How would you guys feel about a platform that addresses AT LEAST the above points and makes it easier for candidates to

1. find jobs for which they qualify
2. not be ignored if they are truly qualified (ignored because at bottom of application pile)
3. have a minimal profile (no need for every bit of information on your life, down to who's ass you had to kiss at your previous workplace)
4. no need of a CV/Resume to apply for a job - I'm at a point where I hate resumes and CVs

And finally, do you have any thoughts, similar experiences or just general feedback for me? Do you see yourself using this platform?

Thanks guys!

 

[jillmci]

@virginiaadorno I don't quite understand what you're going to do for all the ghosted people. Perhaps you could build a model that considers various factors that gives you an indication about an employee i.e "candidates who come from X with Y title have gone on to work for Microsoft". However that could just make things worse too. Perhaps you could penalize companies that don't respond. Ask candidates for feedback after contacting. Hotpads has this feature where it shows the landlord's response rate.

 

[virginiaadorno]

@jillmci All the points I mentioned in my post, I have a solution for and as I've said in my responses to other users, I don't know how likely this solution is to be adopted just because it'll be unique. I may be delusional here and it may very well be the case that only I like my idea... and everyone will hate it haha. That's a risk I'm willing to take.

I do like your suggestion of penalizing the company via a review system, I was thinking something along those lines as well. Perhaps I can incorporate a bit of that into my own approach.

 

[jillmci]

@virginiaadorno Fair enough. I think certain industries/jobs would adapt better to your idea compared to others.

Best of luck !

 

[yozefel]

@virginiaadorno Sounds like there is definitely a gap in the market there, and based on my own (limited) experience I have come across similar problems. In particular the requirement for both a CV and answering the questions is a pain.

One question I would consider is 'why don't they do it already?' I'm sure the hug companies have already spotted these holes but for some reason coudn't/didn't fix them. Maybe it's as simple as starting again.

A more specific question: how are you going to be able to match people specifically with a job/role if the profile is minimal AND there is no CV? I think the idea of more specific job roles is excellent, but more than that is needed for any algorithm to work well. Perhaps a site that 100% committed to either CV or custom Web form info (entered once) is a good way to go there, rather than the 'bit of both' approach taken elsewhere.

I don't have any experience btw, I just share your frustration with indeed/linkedin/glassdoor etc. Hope this is useful

 

[old_man_sinner]

@yozefel Guessing it’s an incentives thing. Since they make their money off the recruiters who just blast out emails to all users who barely match? I mean, who the fuck is going to take a demotion? I get pinged daily for programming jobs that are lateral moves at best. It’s so annoying.

 

[virginiaadorno]

@old_man_sinner

One question I would consider is 'why don't they do it already?' I'm sure the hug companies have already spotted these holes but for some reason coudn't/didn't fix them. Maybe it's as simple as starting again.

So this is a good question and I did consider it myself and Indeed has come with a solution they call "Assessments". Basically, every job listing an employer creates will have tests in there to determine your proficiency. They can take anywhere from 10 minutes (1 test module) to 1 hour (6 test modules)... My only problem with this is, I don't want to take a 30 minute test before I apply to a position. Multiply that by 3 positions and I've just spent an hour and a half doing tests (plus the time I have to waste still tailoring my resume/cv - just not worth it nor is this efficient)... I've tested this functionality out quite a bit on their beta site here: https://www.indeed.com/assessments

If you have any thoughts on that, that'd be cool too. Personally, do I think this is the best solution to this problem?

No. What is the best solution, I don't know... but that's what I'm trying to figure out. Maybe you're right. Maybe a platform that does all CV or no CV based matching is the best. I think I'd have to build a MVP to test this out.

 

[old_man_sinner]

@virginiaadorno I like Angel List the most. Their interface sucks, but you get to dial in on decent filters if you want to see what cool startups are out there.

I’ve considered building something just for “dropouts”. The people who are smart but shunned college cause it is too expensive and a huge waste of time. Haven’t committed to doing it yet.

 

[yozefel]

@virginiaadorno My gut reaction would be that the best solution would be a site where you don't need a CV at all, and there is a heavy start up cost but then it gets it all right and doesn't annoy the user. Maybe a massive profile-building quiz that covers all the points 90% of employers may be interested in that will take the user 4-5 hours to complete, but then that's it. On an individual application basis, if an employer is interested based on what they see they may request (pay?) your site to ask up to a small limit of questions (3/5?) that are more specific to the role. Then interviews and following stages etc.

 

[eugenelester]

@virginiaadorno ziprecruiter etc.? So you would not have a resume - how do they know your qualified?

 

[virginiaadorno]

@eugenelester Haven't tried zip, but looking at them... they seem to be doing exactly what linkedin and monster are doing. What would you say is great about zip?

And I am qualified because I work for banks typically and I have programming experience, which puts me ahead of everyone in my roles. Been at 3 banks, and a consulting firm.

 

[eugenelester]

@virginiaadorno Ok, you know that, but no one else does- ya know what I mean. How do you prove to a stranger that your skills are right for the post without a resume?

 

[613jono]

@eugenelester Great question.

 

[dhornace]

@eugenelester Qualifications? Or ability tests?

 

[prodigalsun]

@virginiaadorno Comments inlined?

1. find jobs for which they qualify >>>How are you going to do this? I am asking more from a tech standpoint...
2. not be ignored if they are truly qualified (ignored because at bottom of application pile) >>> how are you going to get the first hiring managers believe in you .. There are millions companies promising the same shit but no deliver.

Once you gave those answers we can go from there.

 

[virginiaadorno]

@prodigalsun I think I have an idea on how to solve those issues. Will it work for sure? Absolutely no clue but the approach is so different from the norm that it will definitely make people raise an eyebrow and be curious as what's going on.

I do appreciate you raising the importance of those two questions - especially with the second point. No one delivers, everyone promises.

 

[bluemoonzenna101]

@virginiaadorno I don't think your points are strong enough to be a valid competitor against linkedin, indeed and the other giants out there.

Plus, depending on how you do things you can get into legal trouble (if you do go forward go see a lawyer) a 'find jobs which they qualify' for is a dangerous and pretty slippery slope to slide into. As you may be accidentally defining a process.

 

[virginiaadorno]

@bluemoonzenna101 Fair.

Which part of my strategy is risky for me to advance with, without using a lawyer's guidance? And as for the phrase being dangerous and pretty slipper, why do you think that?

Thanks for your response!

 

[bluemoonzenna101]

@virginiaadorno Not a lawyer disclaimer here. Just as I understand it.

The reason why there isn't an easy fix to this is because it requires lots of time and money to solve it for just one company and sometimes one job class. The minute a company engages in a 'process' for hiring it becomes liable for adverse impact and a variety of other things.

Which is why you would need legal counsel so you can tactically map it out.

Assessments are the standard for hiring based on competency and skills. Resumes and interviews being the most widely used tools. I'm not sure how you could

1. justify to a company hiring someone without at least seeing if they are qualified
2. It's also human behavior you're trying to change, you probably won't be able to change a hiring manager grabbing the first 20 and ignoring the rest.
3. Even if you do you'd have to justify the value in a way that you may not be able to or at least convincingly. Just re-read the problem "they only grabbed the first 20" well that seems to still be working for them, even though you and I and most here would agree (and they may as well) it's not the most optimal. But optimal is expensive sometimes.

 

[virginiaadorno]

@bluemoonzenna101 Ah I see what you're saying. I agree with your on points 1 and 2 - justifying a candidate is qualified and then getting them to change their behaviour from normal hiring to this "new" hiring would be an uphill battle... I do however think the solution is not expensive.

Another thing, the approach has to be unique in this application... If I build something even remotely similar to indeed/whatever - I will automatically get written off.

Also, thanks for clarifying the lawyer part. It makes sense that the companies see it as a process in which things can and do go wrong and they can be held liable. I never really dove that deep in my brainstorming sessions. Thanks!