All that talk about user satisfaction at YC and no feedback on rejections

[barney]

With their massive scale and presence, instead of saying “our scale is why we can’t respond to individual rejects” couldn’t they say, “we’ve scale, so we’ll figure out a way to add value to everyone that applies to YC through feedback, especially given the hope we seemingly spread and the bigger-than-life promise we talk about on spotting talent.” I think anyone who believes in the work they do would give feedback on rejections especially given their presence in the startup world.

It seems more like it’s better to work hard and go to Harvard or a reputed college and then do well in life anyway than waste time proving yourself (before you win accolades) through a YC application. I don’t think it’s what it was meant to be anymore. I’m not sure it should be evaluated based on its perceived ability to spot talent. Maybe it used to be this way way back. When it’s become as big as it is today, it’s never about spotting talent anymore. It’s just a mammoth org interested in scaling and marketing for bigger and bigger wins.

Their content on YouTube is really really helpful but … I don’t think their application process have it to really spot something with the spark of becoming big.

With everything that they say about user satisfaction and feedback, it is surprising to me that they don’t really care about their own users, those who apply. So if you’re rejected, you’re useless, right? There’s more onus on the applicant to sheepishly apply over and over rather than them thinking, twice, or more about rejections and value for them?

At the end of the day, if they believe they exist so you don’t need recommendations, they’re basically shooting themselves in the head saying - oh wait, You DO need recommendations and the status and that’s why you do YC because you need the YC closed group of support system. It is a closed system supporting closed systems. You can’t get in unless you’re famous. You won’t get in if you’re in the making. It’s not a place to grow. It’s just, a place you can long to reach and try hard.

I love my business.
It’s been more than just a business. It’s the way I want to add value in my profession, to the world around me.

And I’m not sure YC is what it says it is.

 

[razman10]

@barney I think posts like these kinda show the problem of this sub. It feels like everyone here is desperate to get into YC. And now that you didnt, you feel like their system is shitty and want to poke holes in it.

Im by no means a YC simp (and im in YC). I know what it is and how it works. But the one thing you cannot take away from YC is that their model works. I see a lot of resentment from you about how YC picks people from “harvard” now and it “isnt what it used to be”. I think this is kind of cope. Yc has ALWAYS been about finding people from those backgrounds. Michael siebel is from yale. Dalton is from stanford. YC believes that the most talented, driven people, went to the best schools and got the best jobs.

Now obviously, it is not impossible for someone to make a great company without that background, but the unfortunate reality of America is, privilege is hugely valuable. Everyone that wasnt as privileged as gates or zuck or any of these ppl…its an uphill battle.

Idk man, its a cutthroat world thats really unfair at times. If you want to break through, its sometimes out of your control. But you gotta keep trying regardless

 

[anon777]

@razman10 I'm the biggest YC hater but these posts are making me wanna simp now lol

 

[barney]

@razman10

1. Were you desperate when you got into YC?
   2.1 Are you saying it’s wrong
   2.2 is it wrong to be desperate?
   2.2.1 was it intended to make people desperate? Has it worked out for them?
   2.2.1.1 does it matter that at a certain point, when you’re bigger than life, the public can expect you to do a bit more than just be a business?
2. Is everyone asking for things they believe will increase the status quo a simp?
   3.1 did you use “I’m in YC” and feel validated for saying the things you said?
   3.1.1 are we saying that in this world unless you’ve climbed a mountain you’re not allowed to judge the quality of the business assisting in the climbing? Isn’t that privilege talk? Is that the only way to critique something? Seems like your place is YC allows you to self validate more than consider something without color.
   Here’s the other thing. It’s really easy to categorize a public nobody’s response as a response from a nobody who knows nothing. It’s easier. And mentally, I can tell myself “oh, you know what, get into YC and then say you felt this way” and then guess what “you’re already in the soup you can’t really say shit”

Idk. Your comment makes me feel like we all need to be entitled to say something. If we’re not, we must accept we’re what people like you think we are - incapable. And the only resort is to work hard and grind away to hope to be like you. Too much toxicity in my opinion.

Anyway. I’ll get back to you in a few years about whether I was right. Because by your logic I need to be successful to be right. Phew. I hope YC didn’t teach you the wrong things - like thinking you’re right always and especially if you’re arguing against someone not equal to you in terms of entitlement.

Oh, sorry my view colors your entitlement in a shade that doesn’t please the filter of your shades.

You’re talking from inside a system. I’m sitting outside, looking at it, as a human. Try that ever?

 

[razman10]

@barney Uhh, there's a lot to reply to here, much of which are just random straw men arguments that I have no idea what you're even referring to.

I am not saying you're entitled for "saying something". I'm saying that everything you are saying makes no sense and is provably false. I also never said you or anyone else was incapable. I literally pointed out that the system is unfair. That privilege tends to breed privilege. But what you have to understand that YC is a VC, they are making bets with their money. If i had to bet on a guy that has had every advantage in life, went to Stanford, has tons of connections, or this other guy that went to a community college and is grinding his ass off to make it - I'm betting on the first one. Not that one is smarter, or better, but the odds are that the systemic advantages the first was given will give them a much higher likelihood of success. I reiterate, THIS SUCKS, and this is UNFAIR, but that's literally how America is.

You say that “YC isnt what we thought it is" and "At the end of the day, if they believe they exist so you don’t need recommendations, they’re basically shooting themselves in the head saying - oh wait, You DO need recommendations and the status and that’s why you do YC because you need the YC closed group of support system. It is a closed system supporting closed systems. You can’t get in unless you’re famous. You won’t get in if you’re in the making. It’s not a place to grow. It’s just, a place you can long to reach and try hard."

This is just untrue. I had ZERO recommendations from YC founders. I have no insider resources in the startup world or the VC world. I am not remotely famous. I'm a guy with 3 years of software engineering experience and a decent degree. YC does want to let in "exceptional" people, and that can come in many forms, but the easiest to see are schools, jobs, accolades, and previous startup success.

Again idk what you are even talking about, I don't think I am always right nor ever make some claim to be more right than anyone else. I really don't think of myself as exceptional, but I do find a lot of my peers in YC to be pretty incredible people and I am glad to be a part of a community of people I look up to. But that does not make me better than people not in YC, nor would I ever make such a claim.

Yes I am sitting inside the system, but I was also outside the system 5 months ago. Being inside the system has given me a lot of insight into the process which is why I am calling out a lot of your points as just being inaccurate, wrong, and emotionally motivated. I think your frustration stems from a lack of understanding of what YC is and how this industry works. I wish you luck on your startup, and I'm sorry if you felt slighted at any point by my response, as I have never felt any "superiority" over you nor anyone else here.

 

[briank7]

@barney Where’s all this entitlement coming from? I don’t think they owe you anything man. Get this vent out of your system and focus on growth. Connect with people in ycomb and get your name out there and this time next year you’ll be writing your post on “how I made it through the app process in ycomb”

 

[barney]

@briank7 There’s this story about Socrates. I’m not a philosophy major. But I’ll tell you the way I know it.

Lots of people absolutely enthralled looking at imagery on a cave wall. They’re so enthralled they dance to every move, they react to every imagery they see. That’s one group.
One person looks away and sees light, and realizes there’s shadows being caused and that that’s creating all this imagery enthralling everyone.

There’s another person,
Realizing they’re in a cave they go outside and see the world.

The one outside the cave is a mad man as per the enthralled audience. Makes sense. The mobs agree. +1s galore. Why not right?

But you’ll always be a mad man if you feel the child like (or should I say human) need to look out and critique the process as a child (human) would.

I’m just going to tell you one thing.
Not everyone saying something negative about a famous imagery in a famous cave is sad, lonely, helpless, and wrong.

Sometimes,
They’re just a fellow human.

Thanks so much for your support at the end though. I guess I meant what I said so much that I’m really reconsidering YC. In the end, it might have been nothing they said or did, but just what it meant to me and how the process evoked the emotions I’d expressed in this thread AND, given I have some self respect and remember the things I say, I am seriously considering thinking outside of YC.

I might change my mind, I might not. But I sure will have this reasoning in my head of why or why not I choose to or not to apply in the future.

None of this might matter to the cave, the imagery or the mountain. Do you think the person outside the cave is going to change the minds of people enthralled by the imagery?

I guess what I’m against, is how rock solid everyone feels about questioning things they accept as god sent or something.

They’re human just like us. It’s okay to point a flaw or a shortcoming.

Chill.

 

[beaufordqrastus]

@barney Rejected too.
How on earth do you think they would be able to give personalized feedback for 20k+ applications? This is insane. Also, I don't think there's anything they could've done to alliviate the rejection sentiment.
This is just human nature.

 

[barney]

@beaufordqrastus How about a really intelligent system to tag applications into categories meant to suggest improvements followed by an extremely well worded cautionary text saying “this was our initial reaction after 12 minutes spent on this application” why not automate the review process so we know how much time was spent on it, and if they’re open to it then being transparent about who reviewed it. That’s what someone with conviction about their processes would do. And if you’re as big and present everywhere as YC, why not take this up as a responsibility?

 

[beaufordqrastus]

@barney Really dude. Sounds like you just came up with a great startup idea. I run an edtech and have to review scholarship applications from time to time. It's painful, really painful. You should build that AI powered recommendation system, I would be your customer.

 

[barney]

@beaufordqrastus Don’t worry, good ideas don’t get funded. I have to earn a comp sci degree for people to believe I can code. Don’t get me started on finding cofounders to make up for someone else’s lack of ability to spot talent yet. Thanks for your honest feedback. I just wish organizations would be more accountable than they are. I wish they wouldn’t use their current scale to actively bury their own shortcomings. But maybe being ahead of the wave on shortcomings is the only way to really make it in business. I’ll know hopefully in a few years if I’m recognized in a commendable way. In any case, I send you good vibes for what you’re working on. Take care!

 

[anon777]

@barney Soooo....You're just whining?

 

[barney]

@anon777

 

[jesuspleasesaveme]

@barney yeeeesh, I’d say YC dodged a bullet

 

[barney]

@jesuspleasesaveme I didn’t know bullets were soft. Do you know what bullets look like? There’s a saying that those who choose words do so cause they can’t raise a sword to kill. Never mind. Thanks for sharing how less you see. You must be brave to display your stupidity point blank

 

[johnhus1966]

@barney they provide feedback to everyone they interview

i'd also point out that the analogy you are trying to draw is wrong. the applicants aren't their users, they companies they fund are. they're already going above and beyond to provide feedback to companies they interview and reject.

i'd also point out that the analogy you are trying to draw is wrong. the applicants aren't their users, the companies they fund are. they're already going above and beyond to provide feedback to companies they interview and reject. it means that when they go to select impressive people a lot of them have these backgrounds.

you certainly don't need recs or status to get into yc, lots of companies in my batch didn't. this sounds like a cope.

 

[barney]

@johnhus1966 Do you think people trying to cope, or who may be smart enough to think that they look like someone trying to cope wouldn’t have thought about whether they’re trying to cope by saying what they say?

Do people who go to YC think their job is to find people who they think are coping to tell them they’re coping?

Okay, let’s imagine they are. How helpful is your comment assuming you’re 100% right about me coping? I appreciate your feedback about your batch. Thank you for your feedback. It helps get some sense. But, do you maybe think you’re using that as a way to validate your lack of patience for someone outside the system? Maybe a little?

 

[613jono]

@barney why do you think even shoudl care about people who is rejected? why? they don't get anything from your success.

also don't think that YC is a miracle and they will help you to 10X your business. Dont thing that they can predict that your idea or even business can grow 1000x. They don't know it and they say it openly.

Do you think YC guys who was scanning application talk to your customers and know their insights? nope. In most cases they have no clue.

Do you think they know anything about your business or even who are you as leader?

of course no - it just impossible.

It s purely random process ,where people try to use their very limited knowledge on new areas, they don't know, with people the never work with =) They do very general explanations like idea space, or boring industrial ideas survive and etc. But in general it's not state of art prediction system wich say - these guys will win, these will not.

 

[barney]

@613jono Your response was the most useful of all the responses from people who are apparently in YC as per their statements in this thread.

Yeah, I kind of put YC on a pedestal in its ability to understand new industries or see something novel in a new industry.

I guess I have a more realistic sense of them now? In any case, I’m going to keep at it and work on my business.

And about them caring about people who get rejected? I think there’s a lot to gain from those who get rejected if they stop looking at it as a money making business. Yada yada, I’m no business guru at this point, but I guess from my knowing-nothing-ness, I still believe there’s value in looking at rejections beyond just as numbers or wasted time. Never mind.

Also, as the number of people who apply increase and it gets more competitive because it affects acceptance rates, they do gain from it.

I liked this quote I found on Instagram that goes:
Why are ethics questions always like: “is it ethical to steal bread to feed your starving family?”
And not: “is it ethical to hoard bread when families are starving?”

Some food for thought.

 

[reallivegirl]

@barney I think it would already help a lot if Y Combinator would give applications a rating so you know when you’re just wasting your time applying over and over again.

OP if you want feedback you can send me your application or anything else you have by email (in my profile).