Am I Crazy?

M

maxilinko

New member
I own a few properties around my town, and often use various contractors for jobs that are over my head. If I call 10 of them, I think i’d be lucky if 3 showed up or even followed up with a quote.

This got me thinking that simply showing up for a job puts you above the fold.

Am I crazy for thinking of starting a contracting business with 0 experience, with a focus on showing up on time? My thought would be to handle the bookkeeping and appointments, and let my experienced employees handle quoting and the work.
 
@maxilinko I think you are underestimating how difficult it will be to find good quality help that also shares your commitment to timeliness.

If you find a few of those people, go for it.

But hold-off until you have that piece of the puzzle solved.
 
@cavwda This was my first thought. So often ppl think business is about getting customers. In this economy that’s pretty easy. It’s serving the customers- doing the work - that’s difficult. Woe be to you if you need to hire folks these days.
 
@cavwda That was my thought. If your business model depends on knowledgable employees showing up on time in order to make reliable estimates, you may have problems. Literally, the only way that you can guarantee the business rep showing up is if YOU are the rep. But then, that would require you to learn the practical end of the job first. Unless you get super lucky and find an experienced foreman who has the same work ethic that you are looking for.
 
@maxilinko The problem with contractors aren’t the business.
  1. There is an absolute shortage of workers. Even non skilled workers. No one is going into the trades because the pay sucks compared to work and compared to other jobs. Would you prefer to go work a job site for $15-22 an hour as a framer or carpenter or would you rather make $15-20 an hour working in McDonald’s, retail, etc. both are shitty jobs don’t get wrong. But one has you doing backbreaking manual labor in the heat all day. I know multiple contractors that have the equipment and admin to run 5+ crews but can only keep 2-3 crews running.
  2. The workers most likely to work construction tend to be the folks that cannot hold down regular 9-5 jobs. These are going to be your drug addicts, alcoholics, convicted felons, high school drop outs. The majority of construction workers that aren’t those things will quickly move into licensed trades like HVAC, Plumbing, electrical. The ones that can’t move into those fields but don’t have the baggage and have the skills move into specialized trades like finish work and they can command a premium on the high end homes.
  3. Contractors aren’t showing up due to a lack of professionalism but a boon of work. I’ve talked to so many contractors that stay booked 6+ months out that when they go to a job, they will only try to squeeze in jobs that are highly profitable. So if you were to get a crew of skilled workers, you’d be booked pretty fast and then you would be ignoring people too.
I want to clarify that I’m not dogging on construction workers at all. I’m just saying that most kids don’t want to go into the trades at all and if they do, they usually specialize for more earning quickly.
 
@richard161171 Can confirm.

I was a finish carpenter in high end residential during college.

I certainly wouldn't go do handyman work, if I did not have to or have a profit motive.
 
@risenart Handyman work is the jam, I make plenty of money on my bids. People pay bc they know I’ll show up, do the job well and they can leave me in their house to fix stuff when they aren’t home. I live in Los Angeles though and there is lots of money here, gotta get in with the executive crowd 👌
 
@maxilinko Yes, until you get a little more experience in contracting and contacts with solid subs, you'd be crazy to just start offering services as a contractor.

Solid estimating, procuring, cost control and getting good subs will sink you quickly if you don't know how to do that or don't have the right sources. You can learn that, but do that learning on someone else's dime - while you do this working for someone else. If you just hang your shingle now you'll be learning some expensive lessons with your own money.
 
@maxilinko You're not totally crazy, but you have to consider why these guys may consistently turn down what you think is easy money. Those small one off jobs for a customer that doesn't call all that often may just not be where the money is for them so they don't really care. Maybe you'd be in a different situation, maybe not.

Another aspect to consider is whether or not you're good at the marketing and management side of things. Can you get quality people? Can you market? Can you tie the marketing into a field management solution and train your guys to follow the processes which allow them to nail the follow through portion you think others are lacking?

In short, if you don't know the service part of a service based business, you'd damn well better know the management side.
 
@oneseedatatime You have an extremely valid point especially since OP's a property investor. No offense to OP but investors are not known for generous pay to contractors.

Swinging the hammer, logistics, customer service, marketing, etc etc etc are all different skill sets. There are tradespeople that are just really bad everything but swinging the hammer. That doesn't mean they're not making a profit in this market.

In general there's a dearth of trades. It's a seller's market. Sometimes it's not even the price of the job it's that they found the exact same job 20, 10 or even 5miles closer.

So if you can't find somebody to say install a garbage disposal for $200 plus materials, what makes you think you can find somebody to install a garbage disposal for $60? Because you need to cover expenses, insurance liability, what if the install guy gets bit by a dog? your marketing, your profit, shrinkage etc. to show up and be reliable? Op needs to with no experience screen for quality labor that are currently making less than $60 to install a garbage disposal or only able to fight enough customers at their installing one garbage disposal a day and OP providing eight customers would greatly increase their total. Does that person exist absolutely, But Op is going to have to screen through the people not making money because of their Nazi tattoos. because they're smoking meth on the job (or drinking or whatever). Because they're creepy, because they will ditch for a better gig, Because they can't really install a garbage disposal right, because they don't show up on time cuz their life is chaos. Is it possible Yes is it easy absolutely not.
 
@moonshimmer
investors are not known for generous pay to contractors.
Click to expand...

this is very true. I usually won't even go in person for one. I quote over the phone, usually high, and go on my way (rental property ppl ALWAYS bitch the most too, not worth the headaches)
 
@oneseedatatime I don’t understand how anyone can run a small service business and not know the service side… Like, how the hell do you know if the jobs are getting done properly? Usually the customers don’t know either, until later when something fails.

To me, this has disaster written all over it.
 
@wakester Yep and half of the jobs will require permitting and a contractors license that OP won't have as well. Can't get that contractors license without a journeyman experience under another contractor in many places. Unless OP plans to just be a handyman.
 
@wakester I own a painting company and this always bothers me when I see people say things like they want to start a painting business with no experience because it's so easy. My job in the company now is 100% sales and marketing, but I have over ten years of actually painting for a living so I know what I'm talking about during the sales process.

If OP wanted to do all the estimating, sales, and marketing and contract out the labor I get it. That model can be very successful. But if they won't do the sales then where are they getting their numbers from. How will the manage production with no idea what it is suppose to look like.
 
@wakester You're not wrong.

I undersold the necessity of having a high quality technician who you had a great deal of trust in and likely had skin in the game in regards to some sort of partial ownership who acted as a sort of Master Sergeant.

OP's best bet would be to poach a younger but motivated individual who wanted to do something more than what they were currently but were limited by their current employment. This person would have to know their own limitations on the business side of things and trust OP enough to be willing to take the leap with him.

It can be done, but it has to be done thoughtfully.
 
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