In my last post here I was asked to outline the steps I take and how I got started.
In 2020 I worked sales for a fencing startup and used these projects as well as face-to-face credibility and appropriate pricing to convince my first clients. In truth less than 10% of my clients ask about past projects or references. I come off as sincere and trustworthy in sales.
In the end of 2020 I had set my mind to starting on my own in 2021. I spent the winter reading books about installation and construction methods but ultimately they didn't add too much value. In 2020 I met a cool dude who is a skilled carpenter working in the fence biz and we became friends and he fielded about a hundred questions over the winter of 20/21. I have paid him back by handing over some projects. My materials dealer also helped fill in some gaps in installation knowledge.
I started in 2021 with 2 employees on our first project using a rented Dingo and 8" auger bit to dig holes and set cement. I knew my distances between posts and had set my string lines correctly along the property lines so we made no mistakes but did have to dig up a few rocks. All good, first project done, heafty profit made on my own. I was elated. We used Tuf-Fence which features the "knock down" system of fencing. Otherwise known as piece by piece assembly. Posts, two rails, 16 fence boards all built panel by panel. My second project was the same but half way through, our long row of holes was to be dug over top of a drainage layer of coarse gravel.
When you dig in, it collapses. we wasted a few hours and considered sono-tubes but ultimately I borrowed a gas powered pounder to see how it would perform. It performed splendid. This was a life-changing event. We finished that project with some posts set and some pounded and did not look back. Two projects last year were nightmare because every hole was rock, but since then I have evaluated the geological diagrams of the city and now know where I do and do not want to work.
While these diagrams do not account for every situation, like a builder using rock for backfill, it helps a lot. The most effective way for me to check is to go to the site and smash a piece of rebarb into the ground with a hammer all over the place at least a foot or two deep and see what you hit. This is not a method I recommend however because of the chance to hit a utility line which is often 2-feet below the surface.
Project 3, we switch from "knock down" to pre-fab panels of 6x6 or 7x6 sizes. These are so much more solid and long lasting than building piece by piece. From this point foward, gas-powered pounding and 6x6 pre-fab panels was the sweet spot.
I go door to door in neighborhoods I wish to work (areas without rock), get email addresses of neighbours without fences and I email each one my cost per foot + gate + end post. (I know what other companies bill so I know my sweet spot). If neighbour is hesitant, I move on to the next neighbours or group until they get their ducks in a row. One neighbour can derail a whole project. Typically I let them chase me, not vice versa. Home owners need to have an appetite and an ability to communicate among themselves effectively. This is not always the case. I don't work the sales routine much, I don't have time, you're either ready or you're not.
When each neighbour in a group tells me that the rate is good and to move forward, I request everyone's property survey. I convert meters to feet and determine the approx length of the build in linear feet. I will create a QB Estimate for each neighbour based on their share of the build on their property line, for instance, if the two sides are 30 feet and the back is 30 feet and there are no neighbours in behind or they are not sharing the cost, then the client pays 15 feet on one side, 15 feet on the other and all 30 feet along the back. Plus gate, plus a terminal post. Plus HST (tax). A key word here is Estimate. Not quote. We don't give quotes. We give only estimates ever. The word quote does not exist in our world.
Neighbours signal their acceptance of the estimate either by return email or by transferring a 60% deposit. If the email occurs, I send an invoice. If the payment occurs, I create and save the invoice and send the receipt. I call in the utility locates (this can take days or weeks).
When all deposits collected I draw a diagram of the build in draw.io. The diagram is labeled as not to scale but shows the dimensions and the locations of gates. I create a new layer to the diagram and plot the location of each post and panel and gate. Then I add those up to determine my order. If the product is Tan in colour (which I push my clients towards), then it is always in stock. When build day comes around, I rent a dump trailer or cube van (for a big project), pick up the steel pipes, pick up the pvc and have 3 or 4 people from Kijiji who I hired for the afternoon to help unload. They meet me at the work site, I try to estimate a time. We unload and they leave. Now, I mark the property lines using the lot survey, 300ft tape and orange construction spray paint.
When the property lines are sprayed, I hang Mason line between rebarb stakes along the property lines. At this point I will reference my diagram to refresh my memory on the locations of gates and whether any stretch of fence is inside (not on) one of the property lines. Next, I know the exact distance required between the pipes for a six foot wide panel to fit perfectly. The answer is slightly over 6 feet. I know that I need 54 inches of space between posts for a full-size gate or less if I have to trim a gate (if I have less space). To make life easy, I made templates out of 1x4's for both distances. I lay the template under the string and spray a dot on the future location of my first post. I walk along with the template spraying the approx but quite accurate location of each post. When I'm done I visualize and examine for fuckups.
NOTE: While each of your clients is entitled to a post at each corner, if you back stretch, has neighbours behind who may one day use your fence as their back fence, then you owe them a post on each of their corners. Even if the back neighbours are not your clients and not participating, you should approach them, explain the need for you to build these posts so that they have them in the future, and bill them for each corner which you build for them along your span (let me know if that makes sense). If they don't want to pay for this, and you don't put a post on their corners, then when they build their sides, the run will end with a new post standing against your fence, without any connection to it (this looks terrible and they will regret it).
Once I evaluate my spray marks and determine that my lay out is correct, I set up my ladder next to the first spray mark, I placed a 2-dimensional level on the pipe and line it up in the correct spot, perfectly level, just touching my string. By this time, bent my stakes to move my string slightly to one side of the property line so that my posts can be directly on the line and just touching the string. I will twist it left and right to dig the pipe into the grass a bit so that it doesn't walk on me when I start pounding. After creating the divot, I lean it against my ladder, I set up my pounder and start it up, I take a step onto the ladder and lift the pounder onto the post.
I finish climbing then I re-level the post with the pounder on top. The post holds the weight of the pounder so I don't even need to hold it while I'm leveling the post. When I'm level I take baby steps and drive the pipe down stopping to check for level every few inches. Once I'm straight after 2 feet I finish it off rather quick. I climb down, leaving the machine running on the newly pounded pipe and I place the template against the pipe and the next post at the other end of the template, close or on my spray spot. I repeat until all posts and gate posts are pounded. If I hit something hard, I will try for a few minutes. I will either break through or I won't. If I don't, I pull off the machine, remove the pipe out of the ground (nearly impossible after 2 feet) and I step back on top of where my template would be. If it goes in, I start with my template again. The only repercussion of setting the post back is that I will have to trim the width of the panel to fit. No big deal. Much better than digging.
When all posts are in, I go home for the day and invoice the next 30%. I (should) wait until everyone pays before building the pvc but I usually move forward. If by the end of the day I don't have 30% from everyone, I call them on the phone. Back to the build, I dress the first pipe with the pvc H-post and secure with two 1" self-tapping galvanized screws. Then I drag over and insert a panel in the gap in the H-post and align it just inside the next pipe. Then I slide the next H-post down onto the pipe and the end of the panel should slip into the gap of the 2nd H-post. I secure the H-post to the steel with two more screws. Rinse and repeat until all panels installed.
Trim a panel where needed with a skil-saw if you hit a rock and had to step back. Go back and secure the panels to the H-posts by drilling holes in the corners with a 5/8" bit, secure inside with a 2-1/2 inch #12 screw and plug the hole with the provided plugs. Use the back of your drill/driver battery to smack them into click. When all panels are installed and screwed in, hang the gate making sure it is high enough for clearance when opened all the way.
Cut off tops of posts using a hand-held band saw. This tool is dead handy. The posts are 5x5 and my $150 tool from King Canada cuts them in seconds. It also cuts steel which comes in handy, sometimes the tops of your pipes will mushroom a bit if the ground is very hard. The H-post won't fit on a mushroomed pipe so the band saw can cut the top of the pipe off in seconds. Besides the pounder, the band saw is the most important tool in the bag.
Once the tops of the posts are cut down, apply a bit of silicone to the inside corners of each post cap and place the cap on the cut posts. Project complete. I bill the final 10% and send thank you notes and a debrief email about warranty and care. I send each neghbour and individual email with my Google review link.
Let me know if I can clarify anything.
Edit: broke into paragraphs
Edit 2: Some people wanted to see the product:
Edit 3: Sorry I missed all your chat requests, please join my new Discord server to discuss PVC fencing and my upcoming course: https://discord.gg/Q7jFC8SV
In 2020 I worked sales for a fencing startup and used these projects as well as face-to-face credibility and appropriate pricing to convince my first clients. In truth less than 10% of my clients ask about past projects or references. I come off as sincere and trustworthy in sales.
In the end of 2020 I had set my mind to starting on my own in 2021. I spent the winter reading books about installation and construction methods but ultimately they didn't add too much value. In 2020 I met a cool dude who is a skilled carpenter working in the fence biz and we became friends and he fielded about a hundred questions over the winter of 20/21. I have paid him back by handing over some projects. My materials dealer also helped fill in some gaps in installation knowledge.
I started in 2021 with 2 employees on our first project using a rented Dingo and 8" auger bit to dig holes and set cement. I knew my distances between posts and had set my string lines correctly along the property lines so we made no mistakes but did have to dig up a few rocks. All good, first project done, heafty profit made on my own. I was elated. We used Tuf-Fence which features the "knock down" system of fencing. Otherwise known as piece by piece assembly. Posts, two rails, 16 fence boards all built panel by panel. My second project was the same but half way through, our long row of holes was to be dug over top of a drainage layer of coarse gravel.
When you dig in, it collapses. we wasted a few hours and considered sono-tubes but ultimately I borrowed a gas powered pounder to see how it would perform. It performed splendid. This was a life-changing event. We finished that project with some posts set and some pounded and did not look back. Two projects last year were nightmare because every hole was rock, but since then I have evaluated the geological diagrams of the city and now know where I do and do not want to work.
While these diagrams do not account for every situation, like a builder using rock for backfill, it helps a lot. The most effective way for me to check is to go to the site and smash a piece of rebarb into the ground with a hammer all over the place at least a foot or two deep and see what you hit. This is not a method I recommend however because of the chance to hit a utility line which is often 2-feet below the surface.
Project 3, we switch from "knock down" to pre-fab panels of 6x6 or 7x6 sizes. These are so much more solid and long lasting than building piece by piece. From this point foward, gas-powered pounding and 6x6 pre-fab panels was the sweet spot.
I go door to door in neighborhoods I wish to work (areas without rock), get email addresses of neighbours without fences and I email each one my cost per foot + gate + end post. (I know what other companies bill so I know my sweet spot). If neighbour is hesitant, I move on to the next neighbours or group until they get their ducks in a row. One neighbour can derail a whole project. Typically I let them chase me, not vice versa. Home owners need to have an appetite and an ability to communicate among themselves effectively. This is not always the case. I don't work the sales routine much, I don't have time, you're either ready or you're not.
When each neighbour in a group tells me that the rate is good and to move forward, I request everyone's property survey. I convert meters to feet and determine the approx length of the build in linear feet. I will create a QB Estimate for each neighbour based on their share of the build on their property line, for instance, if the two sides are 30 feet and the back is 30 feet and there are no neighbours in behind or they are not sharing the cost, then the client pays 15 feet on one side, 15 feet on the other and all 30 feet along the back. Plus gate, plus a terminal post. Plus HST (tax). A key word here is Estimate. Not quote. We don't give quotes. We give only estimates ever. The word quote does not exist in our world.
Neighbours signal their acceptance of the estimate either by return email or by transferring a 60% deposit. If the email occurs, I send an invoice. If the payment occurs, I create and save the invoice and send the receipt. I call in the utility locates (this can take days or weeks).
When all deposits collected I draw a diagram of the build in draw.io. The diagram is labeled as not to scale but shows the dimensions and the locations of gates. I create a new layer to the diagram and plot the location of each post and panel and gate. Then I add those up to determine my order. If the product is Tan in colour (which I push my clients towards), then it is always in stock. When build day comes around, I rent a dump trailer or cube van (for a big project), pick up the steel pipes, pick up the pvc and have 3 or 4 people from Kijiji who I hired for the afternoon to help unload. They meet me at the work site, I try to estimate a time. We unload and they leave. Now, I mark the property lines using the lot survey, 300ft tape and orange construction spray paint.
When the property lines are sprayed, I hang Mason line between rebarb stakes along the property lines. At this point I will reference my diagram to refresh my memory on the locations of gates and whether any stretch of fence is inside (not on) one of the property lines. Next, I know the exact distance required between the pipes for a six foot wide panel to fit perfectly. The answer is slightly over 6 feet. I know that I need 54 inches of space between posts for a full-size gate or less if I have to trim a gate (if I have less space). To make life easy, I made templates out of 1x4's for both distances. I lay the template under the string and spray a dot on the future location of my first post. I walk along with the template spraying the approx but quite accurate location of each post. When I'm done I visualize and examine for fuckups.
NOTE: While each of your clients is entitled to a post at each corner, if you back stretch, has neighbours behind who may one day use your fence as their back fence, then you owe them a post on each of their corners. Even if the back neighbours are not your clients and not participating, you should approach them, explain the need for you to build these posts so that they have them in the future, and bill them for each corner which you build for them along your span (let me know if that makes sense). If they don't want to pay for this, and you don't put a post on their corners, then when they build their sides, the run will end with a new post standing against your fence, without any connection to it (this looks terrible and they will regret it).
Once I evaluate my spray marks and determine that my lay out is correct, I set up my ladder next to the first spray mark, I placed a 2-dimensional level on the pipe and line it up in the correct spot, perfectly level, just touching my string. By this time, bent my stakes to move my string slightly to one side of the property line so that my posts can be directly on the line and just touching the string. I will twist it left and right to dig the pipe into the grass a bit so that it doesn't walk on me when I start pounding. After creating the divot, I lean it against my ladder, I set up my pounder and start it up, I take a step onto the ladder and lift the pounder onto the post.
I finish climbing then I re-level the post with the pounder on top. The post holds the weight of the pounder so I don't even need to hold it while I'm leveling the post. When I'm level I take baby steps and drive the pipe down stopping to check for level every few inches. Once I'm straight after 2 feet I finish it off rather quick. I climb down, leaving the machine running on the newly pounded pipe and I place the template against the pipe and the next post at the other end of the template, close or on my spray spot. I repeat until all posts and gate posts are pounded. If I hit something hard, I will try for a few minutes. I will either break through or I won't. If I don't, I pull off the machine, remove the pipe out of the ground (nearly impossible after 2 feet) and I step back on top of where my template would be. If it goes in, I start with my template again. The only repercussion of setting the post back is that I will have to trim the width of the panel to fit. No big deal. Much better than digging.
When all posts are in, I go home for the day and invoice the next 30%. I (should) wait until everyone pays before building the pvc but I usually move forward. If by the end of the day I don't have 30% from everyone, I call them on the phone. Back to the build, I dress the first pipe with the pvc H-post and secure with two 1" self-tapping galvanized screws. Then I drag over and insert a panel in the gap in the H-post and align it just inside the next pipe. Then I slide the next H-post down onto the pipe and the end of the panel should slip into the gap of the 2nd H-post. I secure the H-post to the steel with two more screws. Rinse and repeat until all panels installed.
Trim a panel where needed with a skil-saw if you hit a rock and had to step back. Go back and secure the panels to the H-posts by drilling holes in the corners with a 5/8" bit, secure inside with a 2-1/2 inch #12 screw and plug the hole with the provided plugs. Use the back of your drill/driver battery to smack them into click. When all panels are installed and screwed in, hang the gate making sure it is high enough for clearance when opened all the way.
Cut off tops of posts using a hand-held band saw. This tool is dead handy. The posts are 5x5 and my $150 tool from King Canada cuts them in seconds. It also cuts steel which comes in handy, sometimes the tops of your pipes will mushroom a bit if the ground is very hard. The H-post won't fit on a mushroomed pipe so the band saw can cut the top of the pipe off in seconds. Besides the pounder, the band saw is the most important tool in the bag.
Once the tops of the posts are cut down, apply a bit of silicone to the inside corners of each post cap and place the cap on the cut posts. Project complete. I bill the final 10% and send thank you notes and a debrief email about warranty and care. I send each neghbour and individual email with my Google review link.
Let me know if I can clarify anything.
Edit: broke into paragraphs
Edit 2: Some people wanted to see the product:
Edit 3: Sorry I missed all your chat requests, please join my new Discord server to discuss PVC fencing and my upcoming course: https://discord.gg/Q7jFC8SV
