Boss is offering ownership

@jag157 What if the new business has another massive client that doesn't pay? The question of a loan will definitely come up then.

The boss brings some good things to the table (connections, contracts etc), but at the end of the day, if he was a great business operator, he wouldn't be declaring bankruptcy. So the only way this can work is if you're a better operator than him - and he actually listens to you. Just because you're a "partner" doesn't mean he'll treat you as an equal.
 
@jag157 This is like a forest of RED FLAGS for you.

He doesn't have the capability to raise capital. He has probably given you an 'edited' version of events.

No one with that many contacts/business savvy is going to go into a full partnership with a newly minted person who has no idea what is going on.

Tell him you have to wait until the bankruptcy is finalized, if you aren't strong enough to give a hard no.

I bet a 10 imaginary internet points that his house/home is in foreclosure and that his personal credit cards are maxxed out.

It's kinda like having a 60 year old guy trying to woo someone in high school. I love you, I really do, see all my cool stuff. Never mind my three ex-wives, they just didn't get me. SEE MY COOL STUFF!!!!
 
@jag157 There are some possibilities as others have stated:
1. He is looking for free loans or free labor where you get paid in "sweat equity".
2. He wants to train you as his apprentice on how to run a business

Ultimately if you become co-owner you will be invested in this project for up to 10 years. There are many cases where people plan to retire in 5 years and are looking for someone to take what they have as a "clean exit" so that their employees don't lose their jobs. Businesses frequently shut down because nobody will step up to be a leader.

Try to understand his motivation as best you can.
 
@akeeda He’s mentioned multiple times that he could get us jobs at an industry leading company. I know he’s trying to look out for me in that manner, but he also said he doesn’t want to end his business on a failure. You are correct in the sweat equity part, as I’m younger and will be in the field much more while he handles admin. How do I determine some future numbers or ideas on what a business owner could make? Being a commitment this big i feel there should be some forecasting for my future.
 
@jag157 Here's a secret about entrepreneurship - most businesses fail because the owners forget to pay themselves. Profit comes from after ALL employees are paid, including the owner's FULL salary. Most managers and business owners are paid a minimum, absolute minimum of $60k, but should actually be paid $120k. They pay themselves $60k and pretend they made $20k in profit when actually they have -$40k in profit from sacrificing their own salary.

Why aren't you taking that one customer to court for non-payment?
 
@akeeda That one customer is a municipality grant which was supposed to pay for a $250K project. Between dragging feet, resignations etc it’s been 2 years without funds.
You are suggesting I figure numbers on a minimum 60K salary before profits etc right?
 
@jag157 Yes but that's just one element. How will you get healthcare and dental? What is the opportunity cost of not just working for another company for 2 years and THEN starting the business with managerial experience elsewhere, at a business that isn't failing?
 
@jag157 Disclaimer: I am a business & collections attorney, but not your attorney. This post is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal advice about your specific situation. It is always important to consult with qualified counsel in your area that can help.

As others have said, please go to an attorney in your area because there can be a whole host of legal issues relating to this bankruptcy, your boss and the business.

As a sidenote, has your employer reached out to an attorney or collections agency to try to collect this debt? I do that, and we usually work on a contingency basis which means if we do not collect we don’t get paid. It would cost him nothing out of pocket. Might be worth exploring.

Anyway, here’s what I would do in your situation: I would go to a business attorney and tell them literally every single detail that you know about the current business and your boss. In order for them to help you, you need to be 100% transparent. The scenario seems strange, and my Spidey senses are telling me there is more to the story than what maybe you even know as to your boss’s motivation.

From experience, getting into a business partnership seems great and wonderful at the beginning, but, much like relationships, they can go south very quickly. Winding down a partnership is tough. You will at least want to have an attorney draft the partnership agreement, so that you are protected in the event that this happens again. If your boss is declaring bankruptcy, it means not only that this client didn’t pay him, but that he owes people money. For a business to go belly up over one client not paying, tells me that there is some financial mismanagement here. That’s probably not somebody you want to get tied up with.

It may be best to see if there is any way that you can use the entity that you already have opened (your side business), and perhaps do some sort of profit share with your boss where he gets a cut of these contracts in exchange for assigning them to you. That way, you guys aren’t actual partners, you are the owner of the business and he is just sort of a broker that brings in new business for you for a fee & helps manage the client relationships. That may be a way around becoming entangled with him. This is just me spitball without knowing all the facts, though. Again, go consult with a business attorney in your location. Good luck!

ETA: read some of the comments. If he is filing bankruptcy due to a personally guaranteed loan, and then opening up a new business entity the next day that does the exact same thing, that could be seen as a fraudulent conveyance under bankruptcy laws. You can’t just shut down one business and open up an under another name the next day to evade Creditors. As a collections attorney, I know it is done frequently, but that’s technically illegal and actionable. My gut is telling me that he is going to open the entity under your name so that he can say that it’s a completely different entity that he just works for to avoid paying the Creditors. If the creditors find out about this new entity, they can bring the new entity into a lawsuit for fraudulent conveyance. When you wind down a business entity, you need to pay off Creditors to the extent you were able to properly wind down. Most people don’t do this, and transfer assets, like the contracts you mention above, to the new entity and start over. That’s not the way it’s supposed to be done and can open your new entity up to liability before it even starts.
 
@jag157 I agree that you must consult with an business attorney who has bankruptcy experience.

However, First, you need more information.
  1. What is the owner's plans regarding startup of a new company?
2a. What is the necessity of cause of going bankruptcy?
+ For example: his large receivable would not a cause.
+ His inability to pay rent could be a cause
+ His inability to pay vendors/suppliers could be a cause
+ His inability to make loan or lease payments to creditors could be a cause.

2b. Is his plan to bankrupt the company or liquidate the company and/or to file personal bankruptcy?
{This is not an unusual situation if the owner's business has a loan that he has personally guaranteed. In the case, the client who hasn't paid, could impact your boss's company's ability to make his monthly loan payments. }
  1. How long after the owner files does he plan to start up his new company?
    (The bankruptcy process should take 90-120 days if there are no slowdowns in the process.)
  2. What % of ownership does he plan to give you?
  3. How much do you have to invest into the company?
  4. What role, if any, will you have in the new company?
It's difficult to go beyond this without knowing anything about the company.

For example, If the company has physical assets that it owns such as; a building, vehicle, equipment, the Bankruptcy Trustee will order the assets liquidated with the proceeds going to creditors.

If you can get answers to the above questions which you can intern provide to an attorney, the attorney will be in a better position to advise you.

Best of luck.
 
@jag157 Couple of thoughts. If this is a personal bankruptcy that he “has” to declare, how is he going to set up a new business prior to actually going through bankruptcy proceedings. Or is he just basically having his former business declare bankruptcy but not personally? These details are important.

If you’re going to drop out of school he should be able to provide you with some expectation of earnings. And if you’re doing most of the work there should be a salary prior to your 40% owner benefit. Lastly, keep doing online classes or something. If this doesn’t work out you don’t want to feel like you wasted a year or two of your time.
 
@jag157 On top of consulting an attorney prior so you can understand the broad risk, continue working with The attorney every step of the way!!!! Get everything in writing from the guy and put everything you have to in the operating agreement so that you can mitigate all risks that arise out of different arrangements
 
@jag157 Also get a cpa advice in addition to the attorney. The offering of stock/partnership in exchange for labor will be taxed as wages. You could possibly have a tax liability you weren’t prepared for
 
@jag157 Go for it if you are going to be 50% partner

You will get experience and soon have expertise for this venture or the one after this one

Don't worry you are young and have time

Don't apply or raise any liability under only your name. Do it under company name.
 
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