How/when to know to drop a project? Rude, disrespectful client - but only client

[mignonvds]

My business has a large project from a client, essentially, providing staff augmentation services. The client seemed like nice people, but the project has just kicked off, and they are really worrying me. They are saying they don't know if we are serious about the project, making false accusations about our intent, and 'are unhappy with how we do topic x y z' -- when they haven't even talked to us about topic x y z yet.

Whenever I get an email from them my stomach churns, since the kick-off meeting last week this is the only thing that has been on my mind. All the above arguments/issues happened in the kick-off alone.

The project is over 4 years and will personally net me about ~35k/y. I'm 23 and work a full-time job as well. I really want to supplement my work income with this as it will jump me to 6 figures per year. I want to save the cash, so I can pursue other ideas in the future.

My biggest issue is that if we drop this client, there is no other client, the business will essentially run with little to no revenue, it's not the worst thing in the world, because I started this business as a non-profit anyway, to help people, so it'll be fine. But, the opportunity is unique, in that, I can't go and find another client - the business will be fine and helping people, I just won't make any money.

Should I just deal with the client, make my money, and hope it gets better, or should I drop them and let this run/find a new business? Is this just how it is, am I being too sensitive?

 

[joshcorn]

@mignonvds At the point where you have one foot out the door (as evidenced by your Reddit posting), I say boot 'em. At 23, to the greatest extent possible, you should be focused on skills acquisition and solidifying your mental health. Lots of people (me included) go balls out in their early 20s and burnout before the decade ends. Putting yourself first is literally securing your biggest investment.

 

[mignonvds]

@joshcorn This is a good point, it is already taking a toll on my mental health, but after reading some of the other comments I decided that I'll treat this as a learning opportunity. Knowing that I still have my full time job and that I'm not reliant on this brings a lot of ease to me, mentally. I'll keep it up until it gets too bad, to avoid the issue you've pointed out, thank you!

 

[lucy]

@joshcorn Absolutely agree. If it's the first week and they are already giving you an ulcer then it's only going to get worse. Plus, this is exactly the kind of client who frequently doesn't pay their bill after you've gone over and above the contracted scope of work to please them. You'd be much better off putting the effort into finding another client.

 

[georgeal]

@mignonvds Ooph, tough call with that kind of money on the table. My own policy (brand new business) is I don't deal with difficult people. I cut them loose as quickly as possible. But my clients are each small accounts that won't break me.

 

[mignonvds]

@georgeal I generally have that way about things, but yeah, it's hard to be as selective in this situation

 

[logansc]

@mignonvds Rule 1) No Single Client leaving can be the reason for cash flow downturn failure. < I can "fire" any client and it won't cause the biz to fold.

Rule 2) No client is worth my sanity. < Thanks to rule 1, I am not dependent on any singular client, and if they are too much of a headache / don't work well together, good bye charlie.

Rule 3) Don't take on more than can be handled. < I have had staffing issues in the past, not taking on more work than staff can handle if 1/2 of them quit with no notice.

Are you a Non-profit corporation or a regular Company? There are some big things legally very different between them.

 

[mignonvds]

@logansc It seems everyone I talk to has rule two as standard, but also with the prerequisite of rule one, given that we aren't in a state to have rule one, the decision becomes harder.

I purposely kept the business details vauge (maybe even confusing) for anonymity, I'm very safe legally, all that's taken into account, no worries.

 

[logansc]

@mignonvds Work on finding the smaller clients, they add up

 

[psykes]

@mignonvds I will put up with A LOT of bullshit for $140,000. What I won't do is let people walk all over me.

They are saying they don't know if we are serious about the project | are unhappy with how we do topic x y z' -- when they haven't even talked to us about topic x y z yet.

Are you? It sounds like you are not managing their expectations properly or have not properly sold your services.

am I being too sensitive?

You have to have tough skin to be a business owner. Without knowing more about the scope of the project and what they want you to do/not do, we don't know if you're being too sensitive.

 

[mignonvds]

@psykes

What I won't do is let people walk all over me

This is one of the big issues I'm having with this, that their behaviour isn't just something like an unhappy client or someone with big demands. It's, as you put it, them trying to walk all over me and get whatever they want, how ever they want it. I know there isn't details to the other questions you asked, but the expectations are coming out of no where, their saying we want this new thing or this new way of delivering something that I never agreed to or was consulted on, then they get mad when I push back a little.

 

[annliz]

@mignonvds It's all a question of how much burden you are willing to bear, is that 35, and what it will do for you, enough for you to put up with their shit or not? Only you can say.

 

[mba6411]

@mignonvds There's a chance, albeit a slim one, that they are projecting issues from other people they have worked with on to you.

I would ASAP sit down and go "there's some topics we have had you bring up on things we haven't addressed yet together, so I would like us to hash everything out so I'm positive I am serving you fully. It's very important to me that you're happy and we can have xyzzy go smoothly." then get everything in writing. They have something that's most important? make sure it's in writing and the date etc. You can then refer to this at points and it's stupid but it can make a huge difference to these people. 'Of course we are working on project Q you mentioned on such date that was important! here's the update on how that's going and what I'm doing next, let me know if you need anything to replace it as my focus before this date otherwise it's my main goal."

While high maintenance clients are a pain, most the time it's they're redirecting past issues and they want to feel they are handled properly. IF after you do this, you've listened and acted they are still difficult...

Maybe find them someone else after a year?

 

[mignonvds]

@mba6411 I think you're bang on! They talked about a past company that had them in hot water and they never want that to happen again. This may explain how controlling and demanding they are being. It's not justified but it can explain it.

I'll take the note about getting it in writing. How do you go about getting this when it's on video meetings? If we talk for an hour do I follow up with an email asking them to confirm certain things?

Also, do you have any quick tips on stuff to always get in writing or otherwise?

 

[mba6411]

@mignonvds Take notes for video meetings, if you have a way to record it (depending on your program you use it may be very easy!) offer to do so and send them a copy too. If not at least run a recording even if just on your phone to get it verbally and transcribe key things later.

Then send a follow up email after with your notes on what was addressed, mention you are doing this as a favor to you both and if it jogs anything to mind they forgot to address it gives them an easy opening to do so. Think of it as a twist on that annoying school age read it, say it, write it method. Your main goal is to make them feel heard and responded to because that's where they are showing insecurity. The proof of your capability will happen over time.

While stressful, as silly as it seems this is a golden chance to turn someone else's screw up into your gain.

IF after you work on it, it's just too much or things get worse, do not feel bad at reviewing after a year and parting as nicely as you can.

Ideally since they are already emailing you keeping them in a folder just for them will also help you keep track of when things are discussed, and you can point out they can always send an email as they think of things. They may be the sort who need constant feedback weekly or biweekly, try to remember your client doesn't see what you do unless you tell or show them!

Anyways, my point there is you do not know until it happens what your clients will go ape shit happy over but when you find it polish that turd and put it on a pedestal for them. It may be weekly notes of 'we looked into xyzzy and are pursuing these findings to best suit according to what was mentioned in the meeting on such and such date' or 'awaiting feedback after sending information to you this last Monday, can not proceed without approval. Until approval or requested revisions are made will be working on LMNOP project."

When I was head bartender at a place I kept my notes in a scheduled send email I would work on all week/weekend and send when my own two days off would start, even if it was just "have not heard back from Sake company regarding their product, two bottles of -blah- gifted by rep and awaiting pickup for manager to approve/not approve or permission to pour for the well.' If absolutely nothing happened I sent (many times) 'Good week, item X not selling as much, seeing an increase in item Z selling would like to double stock as have run out during a busy night again, requests for non dairy milk option keep coming.' The non dairy was something of a laugh because the owner hated vegetarians and vegans but he was old and never on site so had no idea what people wanted, was my job to inform. We had to document the demand to justify buying the occasional box to offer for latte etc and if I had NOTHING to send I would just send 'x number of requests for non dairy milk option this week.'

 

[mignonvds]

@mba6411 This is great, thanks for all the detail. I was just thinking about how to approach communication in a normal sounding way. I think your approach of making it an expected and regular thing will make it seem better. I also agree, I can just record the call on my end through an external program, better safe than sorry. Thanks for all the details!

 

[mba6411]

@mignonvds Happy to help! Also, just make sure you get permission to record the call for note purposes depending on where you live some places insist on the other party being aware of it. Best of luck!

 

[drsharles]

@mignonvds “If we talk for an hour, do I follow up with an email asking to confirm certain things.

Yes. Yes. Yes. 1000x yes. Always.

We run a custom fabrication company. If it isn’t in writing, it never happened. If it’s in the email chain and we missed it - fine, our fault. We’ll make it right. If you mentioned it once, at the tail end of a phone call about a different project, and it wasn’t in the summary, then that’s on you.

Most of our clients do a lot of work with us, so we frequently “help them out” when that stuff happens. We’ll waive rush fees, or cut our margins on the remake, or even redo it at cost occasionally - but we’ve already made our money on the project, so it doesn’t hurt much… and have long standing relationships with them.

But back from my ramble, either you, or someone on their side should always summarize all the take aways, deliverables and open questions aftern a call.

Not only is it essential CYA, it gives you a paper trail that you can follow when you know a decision has been made, or a spec issued, but can’t find it. There is little that undermines long term credibility more than having to go back to a client for a decision that has already been made. For us, it’s even worse because it opens the possibility of a spec change in the middle of a project - which, while inevitable, is always dangerous.

 

[mignonvds]

@drsharles Sounds good, I'll make sure to do this! Thanks man!

 

[dravadia]

@mignonvds I just fired a client. Scenario I had a great working relationship with him, except one day it became clear that he was the toxic gator of the process both in the way he communicated and how he makes decisions.

I addressed both of these issues with him and thought we had come to an agreement and then he started doing things like what your client has done.

And then he hit one of my deal breakers. He said "I am the business owner. I am not to be held accountable by you or anyone else".

Well this is obviously a problem because his constant interference caused cascading issues which he then blamed employees for. This was completely unfair.

I told him that there was nothing I could do to change that way of thinking and that I am not the manager for him. We worked together for four months and I Left 70% of the budget on the table.

Here's what I wish I would have done sooner.
1) Ask him flat out, "do you trust me?" If the answer is no, then drop them.
2) Create an iron clad communication structure regarding who talks to whom about what and when and where those notes are recorded.
3) Work in smaller milestone incentives.

Hope this helps.