yCombinator companies use Clerky to incorporate. What should I use in UK?

@antediluvian It's £15 on the companies house website to incorporate in the UK.

There are no alternatives. That is how you do it. You can pay someone else to do it, but it's pretty simple, so why bother. The US has 50 odd states, with multiple company types, we have one, with one company type, unless you're doing something like a not-for-profit or charity.

The only complicated thing is shares, but I think the advice I seem to remember reading was create 100 or 1000, but for now only issue yourself 1 at £1. You have to pay for each share (though if your company has no bank account, you'll be holding on to it!).

I would suggest finding a mentor in your local area if you're a little sparse in knowledge about UK business. Gov.uk has some good information. Join a local startup group or If you're at uni, there are usually optional modules you can take in the business school that will run you through the process. If you have left uni, a lot of universities have support networks to help their alumni start businesses (both major universities in my city have them, and I know one allows you to use it up to 5 years after graduation). You can often get an appointment with a business advisor, again if it's not obvious with a google search the business school probably helps run the program, so ask them.

You're slightly unlucky as up to a few years ago there used to be a free business advice service you could book an appointment with, there may still be something available, my first guess would be try phoning citizen's advice and see if they know.

UK business forums has come up in searches I've done with business questions and usually the answers are pretty good, so they may be useful too. Also startups.co.uk has several articles about setting up a business in the UK and is pretty good.
 
@elsiva this. Except my advice would be to issue 100k shares at 0.001p each (assuming you'll put £100 into the business) makes it easier down the line to deal with sub-percentage equity stuff.

couple of very important things to remember, always file your return on time, even if you haven't done anything with the business (you just file it as dormant) if you forget companies house will slap you with a 1k fine.
secondly, remember to let HMRC know when you start making money (not before) and do the tax registration process.
Incorporate at the beginning or end of a month, just bakes your first return easier.
Finally, look around for business banking deals, a few do free banking for a year or more though remember to open an account at most banks you need a business plan (even if you don't need credit).
 
@surreal_platypus If you issued 100k shares how many would you issue to yourself? 1k for £1?

I'm thinking of making a crowdcube campaign which needs a company number to start. The minimum investment is £10 so wouldn't a higher number of shares at a lower value make more sense, ie 1m at 0.0001p each.

http://startups.co.uk/setting-up-a-limited-company-how-to-issue-shares/ says it costs money to issue the shares too, so in this case isn't more shares worse?

Any advice appreciated...
 
@righteoustales The filing with companies house is only to register the new shareholders and it's only about £14 so you shouldn't worry about it too much.

The crowdfunding thing complicates stuff a little, I don't have personal experience in it but have done a little research. One thing that stood out is that you would be a much more attractive opportunity if you can get pre-qualified on one of the tax-break schemes (EIS / SEIS) you have to do this through HMRC. However looking at crowdcubes site it seems that they do a new article of association and special resolution to issue new shares in any case.

I'd give them a ring and ask what share structure they would prefer you to start with, they probably have a template you could use to make things easier all round, https://www.crowdcube.com/pg/crowdcubefees-34

Note their fees as well, a successful funding run is going to cost you upwards of 5% + £2.5k if I read it right. So make sure you want to go this route and there isn't another one available to you (angels, incubators, etc.)
 
@surreal_platypus Thanks for the reply...

I actually applied to Seedrs a couple of weeks ago but they replied that they didn't think we could raise £30k... that with a massive mailing list and a ton of interest on twitter, in a huge niche market with no competition... a company called Seedrs that doesn't allow seed companies (but they're doing a £1.8m IPO)... /sigh

Their fees were much more reasonable, the shares were simpler and they sorted the EIS/SEIS stuff too.

We also applied to HAXLR8R last year, had a couple of interviews and they liked it, and us, and told us to reapply... with a prototype. Which is why we need some seed capital... then we'll reapply...

We've started the ball rolling with Virgin Startup too, but if that falls through we wanted Crowdcube as a backup... If I win the competition to meet Sir Richard I'm going to suggest he start a seed stage crowdfunding firm that actually allows the 'little guys'...

I'll give them a call since they've managed to ignore my email from last week about it, cheers!
 
@righteoustales Sounds fascinating, something in AR / VR?

Not heard about Virgin Startup before, looks like a decent rate however they average much lower than 30k (from their FAQ) but their mentoring seems awesome.

Quite honestly though at the moment there's so much credit available you could probably get 30k pretty easily.

My wife started a business just before the crunch, got 10k on cards and got another 15k from Barclays along with her business account, it just needed having a decent business plan (not original or mindblowing, just enough excel to make the bank manager believe you can pay him back), if you can get family/parent's to act as guarantors that makes it even easier.

But anyway, if you can do crowdcube why not, you only pay if the round is successful so you may spend 5% but you still get 95%. See if they have a template, if not just go with the 100k shares option and allocate them all to your founding team, if you do find an angel investor just issue some more.
 
@surreal_platypus Yeah it's an affordable motion simulator for VR, should be doable for under £2k (probably a lot lower) and it looks really cool.... most of the other sims look like cages and cost £8k+...

As soon as we have someone sitting in a prototype investors will be fighting to give us money, but it's that initial chicken and egg situation...

I just took another look at the results from the survey we sent to our mailing list the other week, 110 replies and 70 of them said they would have given Seedrs £7k between them... plus whatever the people who said 'yes' and 'maybe' might have put in... They told us to reapply when we're more established but if they don't want to help us at the beginning I won't be helping them when I'm looking for $10m in VC funds :)

I'll do 100k and get the ball rolling, cheers.
 
@righteoustales If you've got that many people interested in paying, have you thought of kickstarter / indie-gogo?

I've got a friend that's into sim-racing and that community is not shy of spending money. If you already have close ties to the community and these guys are already willing to commit to 7k, just use indie-gogo and let them give you the money and you don't even have to part with equity.
 
@surreal_platypus No... I see too many campaigns on indiegogo where they have an idea and render but no real idea how to proceed if they get funded (and sometimes no intention to... ahem, air umbrella). I'm pretty sure we could put together a nice video and people would throw $100k at us but until we have a final design, prototype, factory and accurate BOM we would only be guessing at the costs. I don't want someone coming after me for their £2k if it doesn't work out, someone investing £100 might still be miffed but should understand the risks...

We're talking to some hardware engineers on angel list now so if we get one on board with some decent calculations that might get us into the Bolt accelerator... I don't mind parting with equity for a facility, mentoring (and some money...)
 
@elsiva You make it sound so straightforward saying it's just £15, go to companies house website and incorporate, there are no alternatives. Well, yes there are (by post, using an agent, third-party software) and it's really not that simple. Perhaps if you're the only person, never plan to grow the business, never look for investment then maybe it's simple, but as an ambitious statup it's not that straight forward.

The question was, what is an alternative to clerky.com for the UK market which not only handles the incorporation in the US but also all the post incorporation aspects as well like, Employee Agreement, Consultant Agreement, Action of Incorporator, Bylaws, Initial Board Consent, Restricted Stock Purchase Agreements, Notices of Stock Issuance, Pre-filled 83(b) Election and Filing Instructions, Confidential Information and Invention Assignment Agreements to name a few.

There are plenty of options in the UK when registering as a business; LTD (limited by guarantee or shares), PLC, CIO, CIC, and LLP are a limited set of choices but most likely options.

You then need to make sure you have articles of association properly done (yes there are templates you can copy but is that ideal). You'll also want to have a shareholders agreement in place between everyone outlining all the terms around those shares issued. Let's not then forget the initial short form employment contracts for everyone one stating off. Then let's think about any software that may have been developed by an individual before the formation of the company, you'll want to make sure you have a simple form of assignment in place for that software stating it's the companies IP and not the individuals.

And as one of the articles on startups.co.uk mentions...
A number of other problems can arise from those very first share issues when the company is formed, and from other fundraising rounds as well. Possibly the most commonly complained about are valuation and tax problems with HM Revenue and Customs, disparity with perceivably too much dividend or capital being paid to the wrong shareholders, and excessive personal tax being paid as a result of missed remuneration extraction opportunities. From third parties, which a few have mentioned in other comments below, the gripes generally include failure to achieve venture capital reliefs via Enterprise Investment Scheme (EIS) or Seed EIS (SEIS), or missing opportunities to lock in and reward key staff via the very tax advantaged government approved Enterprise Management Incentive scheme (EMI). The above are all avoidable problems if advice is sought before final decisions are enacted.
 
@obiswill I think you raise some valid points, however you don't actually answer your own point about what a UK alternative to clerky is.

Do startups in the UK follow the route of their American cousins in terms of the complexity? I'm not sure, the companies in my immediate circle of friends tend to be relatively simple Ltds. in fact the biggest one (not mine) has a turnover of circa £10mil and they only have 500 shares (admittedly the majority holding is by a family LLP, but that's besides the point)

Can you point at any specifics where startups in the UK detail their cap structure? I can find loads of examples in the US but the uk sites tend to be the generic stuff like on startups.co.uk where they say it's complex and you've got to make the right choices, but then don't really give any guidance to what those should be.

By the way a really cool tool I've used for cap-stuff (though just ordinary shares) is captable.io here's a demo company useful for the admin side, though needs tweaking for the UK.
 
@antediluvian I've used the Made Simple Group for a few. It's indeed quite simple. No complaints about them thus far.

You need to make it match your budget, and look at the various packages people offer - do you need desk space? accounting? mail forwarding? domains?

Quite a lot of the basics can be packaged if you're not up for doing any particular one/set of them. The most onerous part is often the bank aspect, as UK banks can really take their time in setting you up if you're a small startup.
 
@michaelmoreau [h5] [/h5]

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Tax haven: #sfw

A tax haven is a state, country or territory where, on a national level, certain taxes are levied at a low rate or not at all.

It also refers to countries which have a system of financial secrecy in place. It should be noted that, financial secrecy can be used by foreign individuals to circumvent certain taxes (such as inheritance tax on money, and income tax of the interest on the money you have on your bank account). Due to the fact that the requirement of paying taxes on these funds can not be transmitted, as the funds themselves are invisible to the country the individual is from, such taxes can be avoided. Earnings from income generated from real estate (i.e. by renting houses you own abroad) can also be eliminated this way. Despite this occasional abuse, the countries themselves stand in their right to have a system of financial secrecy in place, and it is up to the individual to fill in the required paperwork (i.e. double taxation forms). If the proper double taxation forms are filled in, and taxes are payed, companies can avoid much taxes, even if they hence pay their taxes legally. This is because the tax rates on income can be much lower than the tax rate in their own country. It should be noted that some taxes (such as inheritance tax on the real estate, VAT on the initial purchase price of the real estate -aka Transfer tax-, annual immovable property taxes, municipal real estate taxes, ...) can not be avoided or reduced, as these are levied by the country the real estate you own is in, and hence need to be payed just the same as any other resident of that country. The only thing that can be done is picking a country that has the smallest rates on these taxes (ore even no such taxes at all) before you buy any real estate.

Individuals or corporate entities can find it attractive to establish shell subsidiaries or move themselves to areas with reduced or nil taxation levels relative to typical international taxation. This creates a situation of tax competition among governments. Different jurisdictions tend to be havens for different types of taxes, and for different categories of people or companies. States that are sovereign or self-governing under international law have theoretically unlimited powers to enact tax laws affecting their territories, unless limited by previous international treaties. There are several definitions of tax havens. The Economist has tentatively adopted the description by Geoffrey Colin Powell (former economic adviser to Jersey): "What ... identifies an area as a tax haven is the existence of a composite tax structure established deliberately to take advantage of, and exploit, a worldwide demand for opportunities to engage in tax avoidance." The Economist points out that this definition would still exclude a number of jurisdictions traditionally thought of as tax havens. Similarly, others have suggested that any country which modifies its tax laws to attract foreign capital could be considered a tax haven.


Image [sup]i[/sup] - Map of tax havens, using the 2007 proposed "Stop Tax Haven Abuse Act", US Congress, list of tax havens

[sup]Interesting:[/sup] [sup]Norderfriedrichskoog[/sup] [sup]|[/sup] [sup]Corporate[/sup] [sup]haven[/sup] [sup]|[/sup] [sup]Nauru[/sup] [sup]|[/sup] [sup]Transfer[/sup] [sup]mispricing[/sup]

[sup]Parent[/sup] [sup]commenter[/sup] [sup]can[/sup] [sup]toggle[/sup] [sup]NSFW[/sup] [sup]or#or[/sup] [sup]delete[/sup][sup].[/sup] [sup]Will[/sup] [sup]also[/sup] [sup]delete[/sup] [sup]on[/sup] [sup]comment[/sup] [sup]score[/sup] [sup]of[/sup] [sup]-1[/sup] [sup]or[/sup] [sup]less.[/sup] [sup]|[/sup] [sup]FAQs[/sup] [sup]|[/sup] [sup]Mods[/sup] [sup]|[/sup] [sup]Magic[/sup] [sup]Words[/sup]
 
@antediluvian I think, to reduce paperwork, something like crunch accounting is a fairly good choice. They'll do as much of the paperwork as they can for a monthly fee.

It helps take the effort out of running a company a bit.
 
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