How to be taken seriously as a female founder?

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thepaintedbeat

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I think about this a lot. I just had a call with a prestigious AI company and in the first 2 minutes the GM asked if anyone else on the team is joining. I’ve been here before. I know by his tone that he meant a male person.

This is a reoccurring event - and it’s even more difficult as I’m a technical founder. But I’ve had meetings where I didn’t even introduce myself as the CTO of the startup and I’d hear something like “maybe we could connect with the developers next time” or “ask your tech guy…” It’s not about my competence or technical knowledge. Often times, we don’t even get to technicalities. They just make assumptions.

What is it. Do I need to be more authoritative and aggressive? To be taken seriously? I’m tired of this shit.

I’d love to hear advice from men on this. But especially women, who have been in this position. What do you do?
 
@thepaintedbeat Prejudice exists (as you also know from your experience), dont let anyone tell you otherwise. People get judged for being too young, too old, wrong race, wrong religion or no religion or who knows what else. The degree of this depends on the individual company, the cultural space/region etc. I assume you are in US or EU, but who knows.

I dont have a silver bullet unfortunately. My girlfriend looks younger than she is and works in corporate roles and runs into this often. It seems that the best way to go about it is to still be nice, but to also be firm at the same time. She has had to 5-10x the assertiveness over the years(she used to be less confident/worried about seeming "bitchy") to stop people from assuming that she is a meek young girl that doesnt know anything. She still smiles and bring the positive energy and the work ethic. People love working with/for her because of that. She is still herself, but she has boosted some of her character traits to harden up in that environment.

It takes extra energy to be magnify certain characteristics, but sales and other people facing roles require us to do this every day. Interacting with asshole clients is just a chore for everybody and Im sorry that some of us (or you specifically) need to work extra hard for this. Where you can you should obviously try to build relationships with clients and investors who will more easily work with you or (in the future) find sales people/teams who can handle those interactions for you.
 
@preshess I think this is very on point, particularly the part about upping the assertiveness to cope for the implicit bias. I've worked with a lot of women like this over the years and I get the feeling that for most at least it took some practice. I've especially heard the concern about being labeled as bitchy and for a long time I've thought "you know, that's odd because I've never once had that reaction to someone like that." But the thing about that kind of misogyny is that it's really only carried by a fraction of the people you'll interact with, but those experiences loom so large that it's easy to mentally let that stand in for a general reaction. (In race relations actually that same phenomenon happens where the worst element of one side dictates the tone of interactions, like if you ever watch the Ken Burns doc about the West, the entire history of Indian-White relations is dominated by the most hateful elements.) But in business at least, ironically the fraction that reacts that way are the ones you least want to deal with, so carrying that extra assertiveness can actually work out well. In my experience, at least.

The other thing I'd add is that it's not a bad idea in some cases to make a gentle remark to the effect that something was offensive or could be construed that way because a lot of the time it's unintentional. It's a core part of my identity that I try not to do this stuff and I've absolutely walked into it on occasion by accident. One time I talked to a woman at a conference dinner for about an hour about her research at CMU, and at one point I asked what her role in the lab was and was I visibly surprised when she said she was a tenured PI (and a rather well-known one). If she'd been a man that would have been the default assumption so I knew *instantly* what I'd done, and I'm still mortified thinking about it. So you know...don't hesitate to bring it above the surface because it can always be a learning experience for others.
 
@thepaintedbeat Two thoughts immediately came to mind:

The first is whether or not you want to work with people that are going to discount you because you're a woman at all. Even if you get through the sales pitch and manage to close them, if you're dealing with those same people on a regular basis chances are there will always be questions about your competence and ability. Unfortunate, I know, but probable.

The second is whether its worth just playing the game. Get a guy who works for you on the call to show his face and have him refer all technical questions to you. It'll put them at ease immediately and give you a chance to prove yourself. I used to do this when selling in a blue-collar setting. We had an amazing lady salesperson and one of my favourite things was to ask her technical questions when the man coming in had completely discounted her. Often, because it was couples coming in to shop, the lady in the couple would respond very well and we'd be able to make the sale.
 
@aisha41 This is sound advice - this is what many founders of color require to get in the door as well. Still, it's unfortunate, but using whatever tricks to get what you need is often the extra work that underdogs must undertake. Reading David & Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell was inspiring for the stories that show others that push against similar obstacles.
 
@aisha41 This is good advice.

And for what it’s worth - I’m sorry you’re having this altogether far too familiar experience. You deserve better.

Signed,

A male CEO whose entire leadership team is female.
 
@thepaintedbeat Woman here in big tech:
  • Don't use high pitch. Sadly as annoying as this is it discredits you.
  • Speak slowly, make pauses. Speaking fast makes you look like you don't know what you are saying and makes you feel confusing.
  • Repeat a point (this is useful for both men and women)
  • Don't let your voice shake. Women tend to have shakier voices and it makes us sound clueless.
  • If in person, make eye contact firmly.
  • Take space in a room. Spread your legs arms. Pretend like everyone in that room is there to listen to you. This is awkward to me, but it is the only way I don't look like a tiny rat.
  • Interrupt if needed, don't let them step over you.
  • If there is plain disrespect, state your credentials. Don't brag. "In my X role.... "
  • Emphasize your technical side on your introduction. Due to unconscious bias they immediately think of you as marketing, since that is the only women they interface with most likely.
  • Bring an ally. Not everyone has to believe you and due to unconscious bias the fastest way to convince may be to bring a stereotypical man to the convo. With some men, I have needed to bring in someone they deemed as credible, even if they were newer in their career.
Doing all of this is tiring and frustrating. I am sorry.
 
@terrym5407 None of this was natural to me. All of this I learned by copying guys' behavior in my engineering classes and my job. The pitch and way of speaking, I copied from Elizabeth Holmes. As much as she was a terrible person, she did show how to powerfully communicate as a woman.

I did take voice lessons and participated in speaking competitions. I also remind myself of the time men say completely wrong stuff confidently whenever I am feeling insecure.
 
@harpazo777 When you work with younger women, do you actively coach them on these things? I feel like when I say it the implicit reaction is "easy for you to say" (which is right), so it doesn't land. I'm curious if you find these things easy or difficult to mentor.
 
@terrym5407 I understand your intentions are good, but I totally get your mentees.

I am posting the things I had to do to climb in an environment that didn't want me. You should be doing an environment that takes us in.

If you have a shaky small woman saying something. Stop the call. Tell the loud guy to shut the f** up (in my eng class a lot of those dudes had Cs) and listen to her. When she speaks and she sounds "lost" stop yourself and listen. One of the most powerful moments in my career was when one of the smartest men in the room shushed everyone and made people listen to me. He made space for me and made me feel worthwhile. You can do that.

An example of a place where we can improve is for instance if a woman (or a guy) cries in a meeting, don't think you pushed her too hard. Think about the guy who burst out angry, frustrated. That guy was deemed as passionate. When I cry though, I am deemed as weak and projects get taken from my hands. I am not weak. I am passionate. Also, men yelling scares me and I bet other women. Guys tend to feel awkward when a woman cries and can't handle it. If I handle the yelling, you should handle the crying.

Don't force us to change. Let us be our true self. This may take time. In the meantime having free voice lessons and bring in webinars to men on different communication styles would be great.
 
@thepaintedbeat It should also be noted that a lot of developers especially won't see the CTO as a technical person.

In many businesses they guide the direction of the technical direction but use the expertise in the team to guide their decisions. I've met more non-technical CTO'S than not.

And when I was a CTO most interactions started on the basis that I wasn't a developer, even though I had significant experience.

Im not a woman so I can't speak to your experiences, and I have seen toxicity to women in this industry but I wanted to share my experience of dealing with CTO'S and businesses too and it is atleast in part the role itself rather than just the person in that position
 
@brianps Depends on the stage of business, but a CTO's main role is to guide the businesses technical direction.

Same as the CEO is meant to guide the businesses direction,
CFO the businesses financial direction

It's a management position, they tend to use their teams expertise to help make the right decisions for the whole business rather than being involved in the day to day themselves.

Not to say they won't have reasonable, high level knowledge, but the difference in knowledge between that and a senior developer is often quite significant.
 
@brianps Haha it is weird. I worked in a software division of a massive company where the chief architect had never in his life written a line of code.

Needless to say, his solutions were often naïve and terrible.
 
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