If you’re building a startup, always sell BEFORE you build (here’s why)
- Thread starter seekingtruth94
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@zhekapr
I wouldn't gainsay the expert advice offered on this, but I just want to be sure we're all agreed on what a "leading question" is. (The concept also comes up in the courtroom ...from what I see at the movies.)
Consider the following example of a series of leading questions designed to get the desired answer.
Q1. Recent research has found that, on average, taking care of one's personal appearance can boost one's income by 5%. Do you agree that haircare is a very important aspect of personal grooming?
YES. [Obvious answer.]
Q2. If you could double your money, would you consider that to be a great investment?
YES. [Obvious answer.]
Q3. The average worker earns $80k per annum. Taking more care of personal grooming could add $4k to their income. Would you agree that it would be a good investment for them to spend $1k per year on a new type of shampoo that makes hair shinier than anything else on the market?
Um, well, I guess so ...yes. [This isn't the natural answer, but the participant feels that they have to answer "yes" in order to be consistent with the previous responses. Even though the logic is terribly flawed.]
Obviously the above is an extreme example.
If you only meant that you were directing the general topic of conversation, or "chat", then that's not quite the same thing — although you still need to be careful.
I wouldn't gainsay the expert advice offered on this, but I just want to be sure we're all agreed on what a "leading question" is. (The concept also comes up in the courtroom ...from what I see at the movies.)
Consider the following example of a series of leading questions designed to get the desired answer.
Q1. Recent research has found that, on average, taking care of one's personal appearance can boost one's income by 5%. Do you agree that haircare is a very important aspect of personal grooming?
YES. [Obvious answer.]
Q2. If you could double your money, would you consider that to be a great investment?
YES. [Obvious answer.]
Q3. The average worker earns $80k per annum. Taking more care of personal grooming could add $4k to their income. Would you agree that it would be a good investment for them to spend $1k per year on a new type of shampoo that makes hair shinier than anything else on the market?
Um, well, I guess so ...yes. [This isn't the natural answer, but the participant feels that they have to answer "yes" in order to be consistent with the previous responses. Even though the logic is terribly flawed.]
Obviously the above is an extreme example.
If you only meant that you were directing the general topic of conversation, or "chat", then that's not quite the same thing — although you still need to be careful.
seekingtruth94
New member
@strugglingsinner1 Goal is to get them to tell you their problem and not mention your business idea (until it's validated)
@paulus59 Would this Customer Discovery be still vital as an inventor with a (patent-pending) invention to improve some existing product?
For the purposes of discussion, let's say it's a chemist who, through experiments conducted in their backyard shed (to the consternation of the neighbours!) has discovered a more 'grippy' tyre rubber than anything else on the market, which isn't technically difficult or expensive to manufacture; it has only 'average' durability.
So, end customers are going to be people who use tyres and prioritise performance and/or safety. But (let's say) the chemist isn't planning to set up a tyre company from scratch and try to compete with the established multinationals. Rather, she/he is planning to license the IP to one (or more?) of those multinationals.
To license the IP, would the case be stronger if the chemist spends time surveying the public about what their tyre-buying preferences & priorities are? I doubt that they could match the market research done by/for the multinationals, so it would possibly tell them nothing new. Maybe it would show the multinationals that "This person is serious!"???
Alternatively, for such a case would Customer Discovery rather refer to the chemist finding out more about the multinationals, and perhaps some smaller/specialist manufacturers — as the prospective purchasers of the IP licence(s) — rather than the end-users?
For the purposes of discussion, let's say it's a chemist who, through experiments conducted in their backyard shed (to the consternation of the neighbours!) has discovered a more 'grippy' tyre rubber than anything else on the market, which isn't technically difficult or expensive to manufacture; it has only 'average' durability.
So, end customers are going to be people who use tyres and prioritise performance and/or safety. But (let's say) the chemist isn't planning to set up a tyre company from scratch and try to compete with the established multinationals. Rather, she/he is planning to license the IP to one (or more?) of those multinationals.
To license the IP, would the case be stronger if the chemist spends time surveying the public about what their tyre-buying preferences & priorities are? I doubt that they could match the market research done by/for the multinationals, so it would possibly tell them nothing new. Maybe it would show the multinationals that "This person is serious!"???
Alternatively, for such a case would Customer Discovery rather refer to the chemist finding out more about the multinationals, and perhaps some smaller/specialist manufacturers — as the prospective purchasers of the IP licence(s) — rather than the end-users?
@paulus59 I think it could be argued that in some cases receiving feedback on your product offering (via pitching) is a form of customer discovery since you're fine tuning your product to better suit their needs. In many instances, although unlikely to be the majority, the stages of customer discovery and early sales / pitching are likely to be intertwined with the process of reaching product market fit.
@seekingtruth94 I've had this happen in real life, where the sales team sold something that didn't exist.
Only problem was, they sold it to a major customer as though it did exist, and without telling anyone in charge of services or product. They asked for concept images from marketing, and then directly turned around and showed them to the customer as proof we had the thing.
After the customer signed on the dotted line, the other teams then had only a year -- when product management had said they'd really need three years -- to produce this thing as a "whitelabel version of your own product, so why do you even need a year?"
All while the responsible salespeople collected their commission and got to pass the mess off to someone else.
Thankfully, COVID got me laid off before it ever hit my plate, but I never heard how it turned out.
My point is, if you're going to follow this philosophy, you better make damn sure you're able to execute... And that you always tell the truth to the customer, however you want to pretty that up.
TL;DR: Don't sell something with your alligator mouth that your canary ass can't back up.
Only problem was, they sold it to a major customer as though it did exist, and without telling anyone in charge of services or product. They asked for concept images from marketing, and then directly turned around and showed them to the customer as proof we had the thing.
After the customer signed on the dotted line, the other teams then had only a year -- when product management had said they'd really need three years -- to produce this thing as a "whitelabel version of your own product, so why do you even need a year?"
All while the responsible salespeople collected their commission and got to pass the mess off to someone else.
Thankfully, COVID got me laid off before it ever hit my plate, but I never heard how it turned out.
My point is, if you're going to follow this philosophy, you better make damn sure you're able to execute... And that you always tell the truth to the customer, however you want to pretty that up.
TL;DR: Don't sell something with your alligator mouth that your canary ass can't back up.
@ablues13 As a salesperson I hate that the most. Way too many (suboptimal) reps that are looking for a quick buck without even thinking about how much dung they're filling downstream for people.
I have one rookie like that and I'm actively looking at ways to snip that out before it becomes a habit because most larger and established sales team doesn't look at things like that kindly. Integrity is important in business afterall - and I'd rather he be able to grow than get hamstrung in his career over this
I have one rookie like that and I'm actively looking at ways to snip that out before it becomes a habit because most larger and established sales team doesn't look at things like that kindly. Integrity is important in business afterall - and I'd rather he be able to grow than get hamstrung in his career over this
I can never get it out smoothly in person and I come off looking like a dork instead of cool, so glad I could write it right here!
@ablues13
Actually, for me this is the root of the problem. The message to the salespeople involved — and any other salespeople who merely heard about it — is, "This is the type of behaviour that we want from our salespeople, and we'll reward it financially."
So I suppose it's the management that I would hold ultimately responsible.
Actually, for me this is the root of the problem. The message to the salespeople involved — and any other salespeople who merely heard about it — is, "This is the type of behaviour that we want from our salespeople, and we'll reward it financially."
So I suppose it's the management that I would hold ultimately responsible.
seekingtruth94
New member
ignatiusdidache
New member
@ignatiusdidache No. -_- I wasn't involved, but there was idiocy on all sides, as I heard it.
@seekingtruth94 While I agree with you, I will say validation isn’t success, it’s a chance at success that can be best described as a projection, like i said i agree with you, but i’d like add to it.
what’s your favorite book regarding entrepreneurship? this will tell us the real deal
what’s your favorite book regarding entrepreneurship? this will tell us the real deal